2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand

[strapping]

Conjecture as I haven't given this more than 2 minutes of thought: Are we seeing athletes who moved up a category finally catching up to those who moved down a category?

[brian.degennaro]

I wonder what Bud Charniga will say about Reeves's victory...

Nothing at all. Any time a US athlete does well he's just omitted them from his commentary. It fails to fit his narrative.

[Hawkpeter]

Conjecture as I haven't given this more than 2 minutes of thought: Are we seeing athletes who moved up a category finally catching up to those who moved down a category?

I think its more dependent on where they were in their careers and what injuries they might have dealt with. How spread out the next category is also made a difference. Nobody went up to supers or down to the lowest category and made a big impact, so it leaves the middle categories. I think we also have to take into account that the men's classes for the last quad had that massive gap in the middle that made the jump go from 81 to 96, where the women had much more sensible class distribution.

On the men's side, the 81's who went up to 89 seemed to establish themselves quickly (Nino, Karlos, Dayin). The males who went down in some cases did so because they were starting from an injured state. I'm thinking lifters like RItvars or Boady. Akbar seemed to change his mind late in the qualifying and eventually made the right choice. But if you look at someone like Zanni who went up from 67, he never really improved.

Huanhua didn't really take him long to be very good at 102. His Asian games numbers were outstanding. Meso looked good for a good total at the World Cup before injuring himself in training, I think he was always going to slowly build throughout the qualifying period.

Nobody seemed to have dropped down to 61 from 67 and performed well, look at Chen Lijun.

On the women's side, the 59's are a great study. Maude Charon dropped down from 64 and has performed spectacularly, and did that quite quickly then went on to continuous.y improve. Hidalyn though, further on in her career, didn't get much coming up from 55. Kuo and Alvarez seem to be injured or just not been able to improve.

In the 71's Angie Dajomes came up from 64 and made initial progress quickly but seems to have stagnated, Toma - well we can see what happened there.

Vibert made one of the great turn-arounds. She looked all kinds of broken when she bombed out at continental championships in Europe. But after hitting her first 2 jerks yesterday, I thought we were about to see one of the great triumphs as she stepped up to 153. If she had a chance to go to Paris I have no doubt she could total 5 more kilos easily.

[Elle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtBAzW8knk0

Corbu's interview about the Team Italy's competition:

- The organization of the World Cup was perfect but the training schedule didn't match the training requirements of the Italian team.
- The limit for the girls on the team was purely mental.
- Imperio faced the competition with the fear of failing and made some techical errors (like not completely extending knees at the end of the pull). She will not be qualified, according to Corbu. He has some suspects about the quite big improvement of Ando.
- The qualification system is wrong. It has allowed Turkmenistan to present some really improved (as if to say "dirty") athletes.
- Magistris was in shape but did not perform well, maybe because she was too calm due to the fact that none of her opponents overtook her. She was not concentrated and the proof is the jerk, when she waited a lot before strarting the dip. She did 121kg in the clean and jerk in the gym and have never failed 115kg. He is almost certain that Magistris will be qualified.
- He is angry because Turkey and Ukraine have not yet been excluded. This is bad for all those who work in weightlifting and it is a sign of little transparency. Furthermore, according to Corbu the number of anti-doping tests has decreased compared to the last four years.
- Miserendino was injured but she's never failed those loads. Again, mental problem. She will not be qualified.
- Massida was on fire, and they wanted to do 148. He doesn't suffer from weight cut so Corbu thinks he could have good possibilities at the Olympics. Tjey worked a lot on the jerk.
- Zanni was in shape but he but he ran out of steam before the competition, already during the warm-up. Corbu says that he doesn't really want to go to the Olympics, he lacks the will. Corbu seems angry with him. His qualification depends on what Chinese team will do with Shi Zhyiong (he thinks the turkish athlete will be excluded).
- Pizzolato had a bad competition because they changed the deloading pre-competition. He did not feel the weight because his posterior chain was not active. After the competition he was fine, no pain. He can do 390-395 and more.

[brian.degennaro]

All I read are excuses and blaming others.

[Hawkpeter]

What was happening on Murakami's snatches? Did Jalood go over to lecture the jury on decisions?

[strapping]

Supers largely unremarkable for both categories. Minor improvements for some athletes.

WANG Ling Chen TPE not eligible for Paris despite a 266 total as she is one qualifying event participation short. Competed at 2023 Asian Jr and World Jr championships, neither Grand Prix nor 2022 Bogota. Not sure what the story is there, especially given that TPE has sent other lifters with minimal chance to qualifying events.

What was happening on Murakami's snatches? Did Jalood go over to lecture the jury on decisions?

Murakami got 1-2 white-red and got a jury review, crowd cheering made the jury go good lift despite the very clear elbow unlock. Jaloud got pissed off and sent Coffa over to yell at them.

The 3rd attempt was the same, his elbow unlocked like 20-25 degrees but somehow got 3 whites, then the jury intervened and waited for Jaloud to give a thumbs down to overturn it.

By the general strict international standard, neither snatch should have been given any white lights. This is particularly visible from a front angle. Regardless of objections to the rules, this is an unprofessional display from all involved and a demonstration of the jury mostly just complicating matters rather than clarifying them.

Likewise, Bidani having his first attempt taken away from him due to a scoreboard error is a serious issue. The lift never happened, how could he have received a red light for a weight that was never loaded for the start of the session?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtBAzW8knk0

Corbu's interview about the Team Italy's competition:
...

I agree with Mr. DeGennaro, seems to be just blaming everything else. I don't understand what the point of these is when it's the same every time.

The limit for the women on the team was the interaction between the barbell and gravity. Curious to know how much performance they lose from cutting and how much they cut. Some lifters do simply look physically weaker under pressure, but I don't get that impression from the Italian women. They just look like they're doing lifts that are harder than training.

I happen to agree with TKM being very suspicious, however this happens regardless of qualifying system. There are negatives for natural athletes of having to make big totals frequently too.

The Tokyo qualifying system was awful and resulted in top lifters being excluded whilst relatively mediocre lifters got in by having better funding, opportunities, organisation and technical/English-speaking proficiency.

Murakami 421 10th would take 4th in Tokyo and 9th at 2019 WWC. Akmal 260 took 11th at 2019 WWC and 5th in Tokyo.
Let's flip those stats the other way. 9/14 women's Tokyo totals amongst the supers were significantly less than Akmal 260, and 10/13 Tokyo Men's totals were less than the qualifying limit. Realistically, 8 of 14 Tokyo men's supers would not have been capable of qualifying through OQR. The discrepancy in number is due to Walid Bidani's COVID-19 positive at the competition, he did not start.

Ando's improvement is unusual but the Filipino weightlifters don't have any explicit history of drug use. I have heard rumours here and there about various countries (INA, PHI, ITA etc.), usually pointing to the past and never explicitly mentioning any athletes, coaches or protocols. No evidence, no case. On the other hand, TKM/PRK are more likely.

[Elle]

I was particularly struck by the harsh words Corbu used for Zanni. I don't think it's fair to publicly accuse a professional athlete of lacking motivation, to the extent of jeopardizing an Olympic qualification in the last competition. I'll soon see his former coach (who accompanies him to the competitions) and I'll ask for more information.

What happened in the +109 category makes no sense; it's a complete delegitimization of the entire judging system. Urso is fighting to have the rule removed, and I understand him: certain performances really lower the level of seriousness of the whole show. I spoke with some judges here in Italy, and many expressed support for the rule. Who knows if they've changed their minds after this episode.

[Hawkpeter]

Murakami got 1-2 white-red and got a jury review, crowd cheering made the jury go good lift despite the very clear elbow unlock. Jaloud got pissed off and sent Coffa over to yell at them.

The 3rd attempt was the same, his elbow unlocked like 20-25 degrees but somehow got 3 whites, then the jury intervened and waited for Jaloud to give a thumbs down to overturn it.

yeah, that's bad.

What happened in the +109 category makes no sense; it's a complete delegitimization of the entire judging system. Urso is fighting to have the rule removed, and I understand him: certain performances really lower the level of seriousness of the whole show. I spoke with some judges here in Italy, and many expressed support for the rule. Who knows if they've changed their minds after this episode.

Its not the first time we've had extreme levels of contention.

To me what makes this look even worse is that, Rubaiawi was going into the competition ranked #9 and is from Iraq - as is President Jaloud. Murakami went into the competition ranked #10, and Bidani is ranked #11 who is also in the competition. Cannot have the appearance of administrative interference in the field of play.

[erpel]

Both Liao Guifang and Li Wenwen seem to have long term issues related to their minor elbow dislocations last year.

Liao can not hold near maximum weights on the right elbow (compare 120 snatches & 153WR to 154 here), there's visible discomfort and buckling.

Li has such a strength surplus it's not affecting her ranking, but her jerk especially is now so imbalanced it wobbles and she has to overpower the weight for 1-2 extra seconds.