Weightlifting Forums

I read the post about technique and as I understand technique might vary.

But how would you proced with a beginner athlete? What are the important principle to follow? Which common mistakes would you correct?

What do you mean by beginner? Do you mean first session, or a general idea of what to do?

Screening for prior injury/medical history is prudent.
I think what to do specifically is always a case of coaching/clinical judgement, working with the individual in front of you rather than a particular idea.

I think a lot of coaching cues and teaching are overcomplicated (see, the british model where you have positon 1, position 2, 7, 985 etc.), so I think trying to simplify the lifts into a movement and not into positions is a big one. The way things are communicated amongst coaches shouldn't necessarily be how they are communicated with lifters. Related, Bud Charniga finally wrote an article in the 2020s that isn't shit.

In general, focusing on having a good and consistent feel for the barbell; good and timing, rhythm, balance and stability is far more important than the nonsense that people talk about flat foot vs triple extension, starting hip angle, back leg angle in the jerk and so on.

This isn't true 100% of the time, but about 85-90% of the time if it feels better and easier, then it probably is.

The other thing is to train/live in a way that promotes consistency - consistency of how you show up to the gym, how you train and how you recover from it. This is obviously easier said than done, and not always modifiable.

But some aspects are - making sure a beginner has fun, that they feel good about their training and their results, making sure that they're physically prepared for a task before you do technique work on it (e.g. before trying to train the squat snatch, make sure they can overhead squat) and so on.

Elle wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 7:50 am I read the post about technique and as I understand technique might vary.

But how would you proced with a beginner athlete? What are the important principle to follow? Which common mistakes would you correct?

With all learning, the most important consideration when starting with a beginner is that the instructor/coach/teacher needs to be prepared for differentiated learning. The inability to do these in a class or group is why I don't think they are good for beginners. A model that the instructor is locked in to, may not be the best way for the beginner to learn the skill.

Most 'teach-the-teacher' education will try to scaffold the skill into a series of partial elements or series of action chains. Positions ('statics'), transfers between positions, addition of reps/weight/speed. I agree with Strapping that its preferable to have the beginner kinesthetically develop the movement elements of the lifts, pulling, turnover, squatting, fixations over a strict positional approach. I think the 'statics' should serve the rhythm and movement development, not the other way around. The 'statics' are also useful opportunities to address any of the injury history and mobility limitations that you have learned about the beginner.

The constraints are obviously the bar and plates, space, current fitness of the beginner, gravity and the rules of the sport - but no mastery is going to take place if the beginner doesn't develop consistency in training and some achievable goals along the way.

Hawkpeter wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 9:03 pm With all learning, the most important consideration when starting with a beginner is that the instructor/coach/teacher needs to be prepared for differentiated learning. The inability to do these in a class or group is why I don't think they are good for beginners. A model that the instructor is locked in to, may not be the best way for the beginner to learn the skill.

BIG THIS DING DING DING
There is no one size fits all way to teach beginners, because there is no one size fits all beginner. Usually what happens is you try to get their history, that gives you an idea of how to start teaching them. If that doesn't work, fall onto a backup strategy.

For example (not gospel), I might start a beginner warming up snatches over the course of ~40 minutes

• Bodyweight squats
• Banded shoulder circles
• Overhead squat w/ PVC
• OHS w/ light barbell (8kg, 15kg, 20kg, whatever seems appropriate), gradually progressing ROM and/or load as I feel is appropriate.
• Vertical jumping (not for maximum height, just to learn how to jump)
• Hang power snatches w/ light bar (e.g. 8kg, 15/20kg, depending on strength), increasing weight as appropriate for them to feel the bar but so the lifts still look easy.
• Power snatches from the floor or blocks, still relatively light weights but enough to feel it.

But some people will do better with a more positional strategy, some people simply don't have the strength to move their bodyweight and a bar fast enough to power snatch it, and so on.

So you have to coach the person in front of you, not a checklist.

Hawkpeter wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 9:03 pm Most 'teach-the-teacher' education will try to scaffold the skill into a series of partial elements or series of action chains. Positions ('statics'), transfers between positions, addition of reps/weight/speed. I agree with Strapping that its preferable to have the beginner kinesthetically develop the movement elements of the lifts, pulling, turnover, squatting, fixations over a strict positional approach. I think the 'statics' should serve the rhythm and movement development, not the other way around. The 'statics' are also useful opportunities to address any of the injury history and mobility limitations that you have learned about the beginner.

I think the big issue with this, is that a loose framework requires solid theoretical underpinnings (and applied experience).
People go to a method or recipe, rather than principles, because they lack a fundamental understanding.
This is partially because those fundamentals are not widely taught or emphasised in the context of weightlifting.

I think that it's hard for most people to first learn the abstract ideas of physics (well, classical mechanics), human anatomy and physiology, programming, motor learning principles etc. Integrating them into one coherent model is another layer of difficulty again.

I didn't arrive at my current level of understanding overnight. I was lucky enough to be taught physics, calculus etc in high school and then go into an exercise science degree, whilst doing weightlifting. In spite of this theoretical background, my opinions on weightlifting technique, teaching and so on have changed drastically over my time.

I think, at some stage, I have held every single wrong opinion in weightlifting before.

My opinions have changed as I have

• Read things that contradicted my opinion.
• Discussed with people who are much more knowledgeable and experienced than me.
• Argued ideas with myself in my head, constantly and maybe pathologically.
• Most importantly, just gained more experience/time in the sport whilst actively thinking about it.

This has happened over a process of 5-6 years of lifting and about 3 years of coaching - and I feel like my journey has been much faster than most coaches'.

I also had a little bit of "coaching experience" in the gym prior to weightlifting as I'd lifted weights generally for about a year prior and sometimes friends would ask me how to do an exercise like squats, cable rows or whatever.

Hawkpeter wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 9:03 pm The constraints are obviously the bar and plates, space, current fitness of the beginner, gravity and the rules of the sport - but no mastery is going to take place if the beginner doesn't develop consistency in training and some achievable goals along the way.

I've found that beginners' physical fitness changes enormously with the environmental context that you're in.
I started out at a weightlifting club (and before that, lifting weights generally in my high school).

The beginner who walks into a weightlifting club is often very different to someone who walks into a studio gym and selected the weightlifting class.
People, especially adults, in cities nowadays also have much less physical activity day to day and in their childhoods.

So often the level of strength, mobility and coordination is much less than 10-20 years ago. Some people are just about strong enough to squat their own bodyweight, or add a light dumbbell. Obviously, it's going to be difficult to get someone to overhead squat if they can barely squat for 5 reps without added weight. That's also why I advocate having lighter training bars (e.g. 3kg, 8kg) alongside the standard 15kg and 20kg bars in a gym, so that people can get started with actual classic lifts as soon as possible, then build up physical strength around it with strength exercises.

In the olden days (I'm told), they would start with the 20kg bar, then go from 20kg to 60kg because they didn't have/couldn't afford 10kg plates.
We don't live in those days anymore where 10kg is expensive, or where most beginners are physically capable of jumping from 20kg snatches to 60kg snatches.

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As mentioned previously, consistency is important and I think the most important thing is making sure the beginner is safe and having fun.
I'm *personally* not that big on goals, especially SMART goals (which are stupid and not well supported by evidence).
I mostly just hope that I gave a good experience and see where it goes.

A weak point of mine is that I'm very anti-"sales-oriented", and what I could do better is to help people schedule and commit to weightlifting. A lot of people seem to enjoy it, then stop because "life got in the way". Which is sometimes unavoidable, but also sometimes it just hasn't been organised or prioritised.

Just getting a beginner in the gym two, or preferably three times a week, for multiple weeks in a row, and gaining experience is the most important thing for coaching beginners. The biggest difficulty in teaching weightlifting technique is if someone shows up for 2 weeks, stops for 5 and has forgotten everything, then shows up again.

Thank you so much for your enlightening replies!

I absolutely agree that every beginner is different and needs a different physical, technical and motivational teaching.

The doubt that assails me when I train a beginner is always "Should I correct this mistake now? Or is it better for him/her to become even more familiar with the movement?" Very often I let go because, as you say, it's more important to focus on the big picture than on the detail, especially at the beginning.

And I think not being too pedantic is a way to prevent the beginner from running away from the gym XD

Having said that, there always comes a point where I say: "well, do you really want to learn weightlifting? it's time to dedicate yourself to the details". And the details, at least at the beginning, are the textbook ones.

I would say there's no one lifting technical error (e.g. balance too far back, not actively fixing the bar) that is unique to beginners.

If ever I find there is *one* technical error that is common, but definitely not absolute, it's that beginners lean too far back if they've done deadlifts and stuff before.

I'll sometimes get beginners with deadlifting or bad prior WL experience do some high pulls with the front ~60% of the foot on a piece of MDF. Enough of the foot should be supported that you don't have to do an isometric calf raise to stand upright and keep the heels off the floor.
If a lifter leans backwards, they'll get that feedback as they come down onto their heels.

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However, I would say that a common error is trying to look at a lifter and copy what they're doing.
For example, people will see someone leaning back at the top of the pull or as they're pulling under, and then try to lean back. Of course, the lifter is not intentionally leaning back - they might even be trying not to.
Looking at lifters like Viktor Solodov, Lasha, Zlatev, Deng Wei, Rim Un Sim, Tatiana Kashirina is like seeing a model look good in a certain set of clothes.
You can enjoy it, but you can't copy them because you're not them. You can only develop the best technique for you.

Learning weightlifting technique on social media can also be a mistake, especially because of paralysis by analysis from different people promoting their own methodologies which are all different/contradictory because no one focuses on principles. I still encourage people learn outside of my own instruction, but not to take it as gospel and try to implement it.

Instead, just take the idea on, let it simmer in the back of the mind and discuss it with your coach etc. If it's relevant to the individual lifter, try implementing it. If not, don't.

strapping wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 2:12 am
I think the big issue with this, is that a loose framework requires solid theoretical underpinnings (and applied experience).
People go to a method or recipe, rather than principles, because they lack a fundamental understanding.
This is partially because those fundamentals are not widely taught or emphasised in the context of weightlifting.

I think that it's hard for most people to first learn the abstract ideas of physics (well, classical mechanics), human anatomy and physiology, programming, motor learning principles etc. Integrating them into one coherent model is another layer of difficulty again.

I didn't arrive at my current level of understanding overnight. I was lucky enough to be taught physics, calculus etc in high school and then go into an exercise science degree, whilst doing weightlifting. In spite of this theoretical background, my opinions on weightlifting technique, teaching and so on have changed drastically over my time.

I think, at some stage, I have held every single wrong opinion in weightlifting before.

My opinions have changed as I have

• Read things that contradicted my opinion.
• Discussed with people who are much more knowledgeable and experienced than me.
• Argued ideas with myself in my head, constantly and maybe pathologically.
• Most importantly, just gained more experience/time in the sport whilst actively thinking about it.

This has happened over a process of 5-6 years of lifting and about 3 years of coaching - and I feel like my journey has been much faster than most coaches'.

I also had a little bit of "coaching experience" in the gym prior to weightlifting as I'd lifted weights generally for about a year prior and sometimes friends would ask me how to do an exercise like squats, cable rows or whatever.

The only thing that I'd add to this that the theoretical underpinning also needs include an epistemological underpinning.

A culture of criticism in the academic sense ensures that we're not just using a grab bag of sport specific heuristics, rather we're trying to falsify what we're doing. Remember folks, copying things is not knowing things, and rote learning is as limited cognitively as it is kinesthetically.