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Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:35 am
by erpel
It's harder to become an all-muscle 102kg man without WADA alarms going off than it's to be the same at 89kg.
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:21 am
by strapping
erpel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:35 am
It's harder to become an all-muscle 102kg man without WADA alarms going off than it's to be the same at 89kg.
This is true, but I don't think it totally explains why the 102s are underperforming relative to the 89s when comparing to Tokyo. See: Nasar.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Tokyo quad testing was perfect and it's definitely better now.
I think it *does* explain Djuraev's downturn in performance (and some other countries), but I feel that the factors I mentioned are a bigger reason.
I also feel that 96 did not have all of the best 96s competing against each other in Tokyo.
- Moradi was injured and when healthy was probably theoretically capable of 415-420, he does hold the M96 WR total at 417.
- Tian Tao lost his spot because he's Chinese and not a guaranteed gold, probably capable of 410-415 @ 96.
- Paredes didn't compete and totalled 400 in WWC that year, with arguable potential for about 405.
- Tsikhantsou underperformed and bombed in Tokyo.
- Elbakh was the only 400+ total lifter left and therefore got a free (but deserved) ride to gold.
I do feel that 102 is a weaker class than this bodyweight range has been historically, but when specifically compared to Tokyo 96 and 109 I think the answer lies more in contextual oddities than the classes as a whole.
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:23 pm
by Hawkpeter
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:26 pm
by Guima73
Some really inflated totals

Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:26 am
by strapping
Predictions, many of which will inevitably be shown to be wrong
General
- Already listed most of them elsewhere in the thread or in general discussion, I ain't writing all that again
- As mentioned at other competitions, the stupid gamesmanship about entry totals (PB total +0-20kg etc) has meant some B sessions will likely be pseudo-semi-A-sessions
- However, on this occasion, there is actually an arguable point to the game of inflating entry totals, with a later session potentially giving you a final opportunity to best your rival.
- As with every event, there are some entries (both individually and teams) that I don't understand. More than not understanding, I find them completely and utterly incomprehensible. Perhaps I am just lacking context.
- PRK cringe. Waiting on the 2024 ITA testing report in late 2025.
- I know one or two people going personally, but not expecting much in the way of BTS secrets as they are not big on messaging/social media.
- From the appearance of the website, it appears that the Thailand association will be streaming it live on YouTube? One hopes so.
W49
- Some lifters will struggle after making weight, some will struggle to make weight.
- AISAH Windy Cantika INA entered 170 and CHANU Mirabai IND 185. They appear to have ongoing health issues, one hopes with time they can recover.
- Continental slot probably goes to WFA, RANDAFIARISON Rosina MAD. I have a feeling she will improve slightly on her 170, not based on any evidence.
- Both B and A sessions will have some good lifting and serious challengers for qualification.
- I think both sessions will be bloodbaths, in spite of the high quality of lifters present.
- Clear qualifiers will weigh-in or lift (not maximally) overweight.
M61
- I'm gonna say it now. I think a B session lifter will improve and take 9th or 10th with that improvement. When I am wrong in 12 days, you are welcome to shoot me.
- A session will be redder than 49A
- Several teammate battles will result in cleans murdering athletes.
- BARU Morea PNG likely has a continental slot locked in, will still go heavy (C session).
- No surprise, Massidda ITA is lifting at 67.
W59
- The qualification cutoff here is ripe for a change, much more so than other classes IMO.
- 59 is a much stronger class now than it was at Tokyo where it was unusually weak (see 2018, *2019*, 2022, *2023*). 217 silver and 214 bronze in Tokyo. 217 ranks 12th in the current standings and 12th at 2023 WWC.
- Very eager to see this A session.
- I think this is also partially due to the elimination of the 55s and 64s. Similar position to the 89s for the men.
- Do or die competition for STERCKX Nina BEL. Not for not making the Olympics, but for not cutting down to 49.
- French national slot will come down to TCHAKOUNTE Dora and RIGAUD Garance. I don't believe the latter is capable of 217 to take the slot.
- Continental slot prediction is SASSER Mathlynn Langtor MHL, 214. Not expecting 215 from AUS, not expecting an improvement above 214 for MHL.
M73
- B session will have some good lifting, including 2 lifters fighting for the African continental slot (BEN HNIA Karem TUN vs ANDRIATSITOHAINA Tojonirina Alain MAD). My prediction is Ben Hnia retains the slot, just.
- Enormous A session, hopefully a high quality of lifting and lots of makes to go with it (one can dream). B session may have some good lifting but I feel it will be overshadowed by the A session.
- ANDREEV Bozhidar BUL lifting at 81. No surprise.
M89
- D session moment.
- Curious if AXEL Pavon HON has applied for a Universality slot. Entered as weigh-in only/60kg entry.
- Continental slot comes down to two Australians in different sessions. Would be surprised if much changes.
- B session again expected to have some good lifting, A session will likely overshadow it. Another enormous A session.
W71
- A session is a mixture of stacked and ??????????, perhaps even moreso than other categories.
- B and C sessions are very weird compared to other categories.
- Continental again comes down to two Australians, would be surprised if much changes.
M102
- Huge A session. Sure totals are inflated but in terms of quality of lifters, this is a big one. Some good lifters in the B session too.
- Continental slot comes down to OPELOGE Don SAM (B session, 390) and KITTS Wesley Brian USA (A, 400 entry). Curious to see how to tactics and ultimately performances end up unfurling here.
- French battle for teammate supremacy between lanklord Manushi vs enlarged chicken nugget Vautard
W81
- Now that ROGERS Martha Ann USA has vacated the 10th position (252), there is a mad scramble to take that position. NASCIMENTO AMARO Laura holds the current slot at 247, but there are several athletes close behind.
- All continents represented, which means that 11th place will also be awarded a slot.
- This has resulted in a very fucking weird C/B/A session distribution of lifters
- Koanda NOR 87 as is tradition
WSuper
- 260 from AKMAL Nurul INA is the total to beat (11th, all continents represented)
- B session looks small, everyone else filtered into the A session. SANTANA Crismery DOM at effective 10th, HOTFRID Anastasia GEO 13th, CAMPBELL GBR weigh-in only.
- Cuba? SARRIA RUIZ Marifelix listed in the A session, positive for Boldenone last year (2023 San Salvador Games).
MSuper
- DJANGABAEV Rustam UZB, under provisional suspension, still on the start list in the A session. Someone is not being very diligent.
- Battle for 10th could be very tight, spread across B and A session.
- Continental slot for Oceania could potentially end up tight (depending on referrees). MAO Sanele SAM has unreliable pulling technique and dodgy elbows, but is brutally strong. My guess is LITI David NZL wins.
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:15 am
by erpel
strapping wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:26 amFrom the appearance of the website, it appears that the Thailand association will be streaming it live on YouTube? One hopes so.
The IWFmedia one, or another channel?
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:11 am
by Elle
I would like to post this video interview of Corbu (Team Italy's head coach) because I think he says some interesting things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRCaj0cbeY
- The quotas for team France have not yet been accepted because they made the request late. This would free up a place for other athletes in the ranking;
- There is a injury of a chinese athlete in the 71kg category (he does not tell her name, is Liao Guifang?);
- China will definitely choose Li Wenwen and Luo Shifang. Jiang Huihua is leading the 49kg category but Mirabai Chanu in top shape might worry her. The same situation in the 71kg category;
- This qualification system promotes doping because an athlete can never compete and then emerge only with a good performance;
- Team Ukraina and Team Turkey should be banned (for doping case) but there are no news about that;
- Imperio worked a lot about strength and technique and she's never been so strong. He hopes she will be more relaxed in competition;
- Magistris is in the same boat of Imperio;
- Miserendino is not in top shape but in gym she did 244. He hopes that she will be fine in Thailand.
- Girls could be already qualified but they need to push, starting with heavy weights.
- Zanni has to push and not worry about the competion of Shi Shiyong.
- Pizzolato is not in perfect shape but he will be fine for Paris.
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:56 am
by strapping
erpel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:15 am
The IWFmedia one, or another channel?
The IWF youtube page is the one hyperlinked in the images. I'm doubtful that they would stream through any other mediums.
Elle wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:11 am
I would like to post this video interview of Corbu (Team Italy's head coach) because I think he says some interesting things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRCaj0cbeY
- The quotas for team France have not yet been accepted because they made the request late. This would free up a place for other athletes in the ranking;
- There is a injury of a chinese athlete in the 71kg category (he does not tell her name, is Liao Guifang?);
- China will definitely choose Li Wenwen and Luo Shifang. Jiang Huihua is leading the 49kg category but Mirabai Chanu in top shape might worry her. The same situation in the 71kg category;
- This qualification system promotes doping because an athlete can never compete and then emerge only with a good performance;
- Team Ukraina and Team Turkey should be banned (for doping case) but there are no news about that;
- Imperio worked a lot about strength and technique and she's never been so strong. He hopes she will be more relaxed in competition;
- Magistris is in the same boat of Imperio;
- Miserendino is not in top shape but in gym she did 244. He hopes that she will be fine in Thailand.
- Girls could be already qualified but they need to push, starting with heavy weights.
- Zanni has to push and not worry about the competion of Shi Shiyong.
- Pizzolato is not in perfect shape but he will be fine for Paris.
- We will see what happens with the French, I am doubtful they will have too much issue getting in.
- Liao Guifang injured her right elbow at the 2023 Asian Games in September 2023, 6 months ago. Her condition is unknown but at the time, it looked like a minor tweak.
- Mirabai Chanu is in terrible shape and her career is likely on a steep downward trajectory. Jiang Huihua will not feel threatened if she opens her eyes.
- This point of Chinese certainty about lifters/categories is tired; they will select the athletes they need and want to select based on recent training/injury results, strength of competition and internal politics. They will do it when they have to, instead of submitting it early and allowing chance more time to decide the outcome.
- The idea that this qualification process promotes doping is both stupid and also wrong. I guess if any of his athletes' have a breakout 6/6 performance to qualify, they must have gone on a cycle for this big last qualifying comp /s
- Of the top 10 in each category (100 results) over the last 6 competitions, counting continentals as a singular event, 15 qualifying totals are from Bogota. That is the competition that would have enabled the longest cycle on/off. Just under 1/6th. Isn't that a funny coincidence?
- The IOC/ITA will likely expedite the processing of sanctions prior to the Olympics. Not much the IWF can do about it.
- As far as I'm concerned, Imperio/Magistris/Miserendino will need to do their results on the platform, not the gym. Not without making weight, not without multiple weeks of attempts, so on and so forth. There is historically, a poor correlation of gym results and competition results amongst these three lifters.
- Of course Zanni needs to push. He is outside of the top 10. With the removal of Shi Zhiyong, Zanni is 10th, separated by 2kg. That is like saying the Italian need to push and not worry about xyz rank #6 lifter.
- I don't think Pizzolato needs to improve to qualify, but it would be very foolish to assume he is safe and only aim for massive weights.
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2024 12:48 am
by strapping
Start list updated Version 1.1 29 March 2024
CHANGE LOG
ENTRY TOTAL (WEIGH-IN ONLY)
DELACRUZ Jourdan Elizabeth (USA) W55kg / 200kg to 60kg (Group A)
SAID Neama Said Fahri (EGY) W71kg / 250kg (Group A) to 60kg (Group D)
KITTS Wesley Brian (USA) M102kg / 400kg (Group A) to 60kg (Group D)
ASAAD Man (SYR) M+109kg / 440kg (Group A) to 60kg (Group C)
ATHLETES REMOVED
COLONIA Angeline (PHI) W45kg (Group A)
RAMOS AMIS Rose Jean (PHI) W45kg (Group A)
SARRIA RUIZ Marifelix (CUB) W+87kg (Group A)
HASSAN Mahmoud Hosny Elsayed (EGY) M102kg (Group B)
KESKITALO Hannes Heikki Juhani (FIN) M102kg (Group C)
MANUSHI Redon (FRA) M102kg (Group C)
DJANGABAEV Rustam (UZB) M+109kg (Group A)
TECHNICAL OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN INCLUDED
Re: 2024 IWF World Cup - Phuket, Thailand
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:38 am
by strapping
@erpel @Hawkpeter @Elle @brian.degennaro
The event will be streamed on Facebook on the IWF Facebook page but there may be geoblocking based on region.
EDIT: Japanese VPNs get around the restriction. I used a VPN from the University of Tsukuba
vpngate.net
A sessions will be streamed via the Olympic Channel. I will update this with a scoreboard if one is made available.