PAP and weightlifting

[Elle]

I found this recent article:

https://repository.mdx.ac.uk/item/1yy554

Ok, we don't have the complete paper, ok the study sample is small... but the the result is that the PAP doesn't work.

In Italy there's a great PAP promoter (Buzzichelli) and also the Italian Weightlifting Federation, some years ago, was about to start a study on PAP and weightlifting (specially with isometric contraction in the start position), but I don't know how it ended.

Have you ever used PAP in training? or in competition?

[Hawkpeter]

The the inclusion of the endocrine component is interesting.

I think Travis Mash is a big proponent of this, though I dont really pay much attention to what he says about to be honest.

[Elle]

Thank you!

Someone (I don't remember who, but an italian coach) told me that doing a heavy pull before the attempt was quite frequent in the past, but much less nowdays. Is it true?

You have international experience, is this something that is used? I don't mean to keep warm before your lift but referring to PAP,

[brian.degennaro]

After 23 years of training, I have come to the conclusion if post activation potentiation "works" it is because you failed to adequately warmup enough. Same with better performance at the end of EMOM or waves.

[strapping]

I have seen heavy pulls used internationally and locally - I'm not sure it's any more useful from a PAP perspective than simply warming up normally. A final competition warmup is IMO going to be creating more more neurally stimulating than a pull, especially for some countries who like to do their first attempt in the backroom then repeat it.

I think there can be an effect on perception, sensation and other psycholgical effects as well as motor learning itransfer and interference. But those effects are probably generally minor and IMO a lot of what gets written off as athlete's head ar heavy weights is at least partially more physiological in nature. Just because an athlete can do a pull easily on a heavy or heavier than attempt weight, doesn't mean it'll feel lighter or get done more successfully on the platform.


I mostly agree with Brian. Warming up weightlifting isn’t as much about warming the body as it is dialling in the lifts for the person you are today, just like a barista dialling in their shots each morning as the coffee changes with time.

The acute endocrinological response with sex hormones and cortisol in response to training is basically never relevant to anything ever. This kind of theorycrafting nonsense led to people only training for less than 60 minutes at a time to limit cortisol elevation. I mentally switch off reading that kind of stuff to be honest, it's been a few decades of nothing burgers.

Post activation potentiation is a neat little quirk of physiology but I don't think there's anything to suggest it's massively useful for influencing training adaptation. Contrast training IMO can be a useful way to fit more qualities in a single session while keeping athletes amused, but it's only that.

If it's a truly heavy pull or deadlift like I've seen sometimes (110%+), IMO those athletes usually look tired/sloppy on the platform. Athletes with lots of reserve strength dont need the first pull to feel lighter and athletes with little reserve strength get fatigued.

It's one of those things that has a tenuous theoretical basis but I don't believe it has usually any real world effects.

[Hawkpeter]

Its not that closely related but its been observed by a lot of people that the Chinese men's team in particular has seemingly been including very heavy pulls, basically deadlifts in the final week of training for major championships. Not strictly speaking PAP, but a curious innovation nonetheless to include such exercises in their tapering.

[brian.degennaro]

Its not that closely related but its been observed by a lot of people that the Chinese men's team in particular has seemingly been including very heavy pulls, basically deadlifts in the final week of training for major championships. Not strictly speaking PAP, but a curious innovation nonetheless to include such exercises in their tapering.

My view on this is the final stages of a peaking plan in terms of training the skill of maximal effort/motor unit recruitment. In a preparatory phase with lowered weights and higher repetition you detrain the skill of coordinating your body for 1RM attempts, so the competition phase is meant to prime the body to single repetitions and maximal motor unit recruitment. The deadlift is an exercise that is going to recruit the maximum amount of motor units.

[strapping]

Its not that closely related but its been observed by a lot of people that the Chinese men's team in particular has seemingly been including very heavy pulls, basically deadlifts in the final week of training for major championships. Not strictly speaking PAP, but a curious innovation nonetheless to include such exercises in their tapering.

My view on this is the final stages of a peaking plan in terms of training the skill of maximal effort/motor unit recruitment. In a preparatory phase with lowered weights and higher repetition you detrain the skill of coordinating your body for 1RM attempts, so the competition phase is meant to prime the body to single repetitions and maximal motor unit recruitment. The deadlift is an exercise that is going to recruit the maximum amount of motor units.

Do we know if motor unit recruitment, rate coding etcetera are task/velocity specific? I have a hard time believing that the pros outweigh the cons.

I have seen a few Chinese athletes saying that slow strength work is less taxing (which quite frankly I have a hard time believing) so that may be a consideration. On the other hand, I've seen coaches remove pulls but not squats in the taper to reduce fatigue. I personally don't think there's much of a difference either way.

My personal take on tapering observing across many countries is that you should do whatever you normally do, just less. What gets you strong keeps you strong, disrupting routine too much can being problems too.

[Elle]

My personal take on tapering observing across many countries is that you should do whatever you normally do, just less. What gets you strong keeps you strong, disrupting routine too much can being problems too.

This is what Corbu says. His athletes push every day, there is no reason to break their routine. I don't know if this is the right approach for everyone.

Regarding EMOM, I don't know if it's a matter of warmu up but I think it's useful for mind issue. When I see athletes that tend to lose concentration or think too much at their lifts, I use EMOM and generally have good results.

[brian.degennaro]

EMOMs are great to get people out of their heads and out of their own way. Also useful for people who are "novices" to single repetition training and do not have the motor coordination for high threshold motor unit recruitment.